A linguistics degree comes in handy these days

Is Jura still worth it these days?

Is Jura still worth it these days?

Studying for 7 years or more, for the state examinations 1 year + no life and learning 12 hours a day only to work 70 hours in order to be exempt from the tax authorities in the end .. Is it worth it? Or rather the no name Dorf FH Bachelor into IGM then BE at 90-100k after 3 years? I'm really desperate .. What is still worth it these days

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 8th, 2019:

Studying for 7 years or more, for the state exams each 1 year + no life and learning 12 hours a day only to then work 70 hours in order to be exempt from the tax authorities in the end .. Is it worth it? Or rather the no name Dorf FH Bachelor into IGM then BE at 90-100k after 3 years? I'm really desperate .. What is still worth it these days

Dorf FH Bachelor is not even easy to manage, btw you have to get into the IGM first and believe me, it's not that easy

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

Better do something with computer science

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

What kind of comparison is that supposed to be?

Different skill set, different job. Otherwise you can also ask whether a pilot is more worthwhile ...

Don't think that someone who really wants to become a lawyer will be happy with a DAX as a FH WiIng and vice versa.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

If you don't have great talent and real interest, as well as good grades in your Abitur, you will happily save yourself a lot of disappointment if you are not studying law.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

My lawyer neighbor was born in 1943, his wife was born in 1948.

Since this year he has removed the year of his birth from his law firm's homepage.

Otherwise, I still know lawyers born in 1943 and 1947 with year of birth on the firm's website.

Since these lawyers come from the happy baby boomer generation and at least the lawyer who was born in 1943 has liquidated six-figure fees for clients I know in the course of his professional life, I find it surprising that they are still active.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 8th, 2019:

My lawyer neighbor was born in 1943, his wife was born in 1948.

Since this year he has removed the year of his birth from his law firm's homepage.

Otherwise, I still know lawyers born in 1943 and 1947 with year of birth on the firm's website.

Since these lawyers come from the happy baby boomer generation and at least the lawyer born in 1943 has liquidated six-figure fees for clients I know in the course of his professional life, I find it surprising that they are still active.

That sounds a lot like the WiWi-Treff legend, which targets all freelancers and especially tax consultants ...

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

Financially, it pays off more than ever with starting salaries of up to € 120,000 ...

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

For the top 5% maybe. Similar to business studies. Only that with a mediocre business administration degree and internships you can get more out of it than with a mediocre law degree.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 8th, 2019:

For the top 5% maybe. Similar to business studies. Only that with a mediocre business administration degree and internships you can get more out of it than with a mediocre law degree.

With a mediocre 1st and 2nd state examination you can still easily get 60k. With a mediocre business administration master's degree (and internships) a maximum of 40k.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 8th, 2019:

For the top 5% maybe. Similar to business administration. Only that with a mediocre business administration degree and internships you can get more out of it than with a mediocre law degree.

Well in an emergency you can find shelter in the public sector.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

Some of them also have requirements of 8 or more points.

WiWi Gast wrote on April 8th, 2019:

For the top 5% maybe. Similar to business studies. Only that with a mediocre business administration degree and internships you can get more out of it than with a mediocre law degree.

Well in an emergency you can find shelter in the public sector.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

Today, more desperately than ever, law firms are looking for junior lawyers. Some really astronomical salaries are paid directly in the first few years (if you are interested, you can read the details on Azur-online). And the positions (contrary to their public statements, not only people with a double rating and Dr. one but also those with two solid degrees Satisfactory (so let's say top 30%, not top 5%).

The course lasts 8 semesters, by the way. I know a few who have made it in 6 semesters. You have to go through the legal traineeship, but with extra income you can get a nice salary.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

My cousin works every day, but only 5 days a week around 70 hours of net working time, has 110K fixed without bonus at the start, is now 10k more in the second year. Does she enjoy it? No, whether the money is good, conditionally. You only live on weekends and everyone who thinks it's cool to be at work at half past 10 and work until 11 unfortunately doesn't know what it means to no longer have a private life. That’s not much fun.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9, 2019:

My cousin works every day, but only 5 days a week around 70 hours of net working time, has 110K fixed without bonus at the start, is now 10k more in the second year. Does she enjoy it? No, whether the money is good, conditionally. You only live on weekends and everyone who thinks it's cool to be at work at half past ten and to work until 11 doesn't know what it means to no longer have a private life. That’s not much fun.

Then the realistic salary for a 35-hour week is 55k or 60k.

Similarly, a kindergarten teacher with 45k would earn 90k for a 70-hour week ;-)

M. E. nominally high salaries are useless if they can only be earned with a lot of overtime.

But each as it pleases ...

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9th, 2019:

My cousin works every day, but only 5 days a week around 70 hours of net working time, has 110K fixed without bonus in the beginning, is now another 10k more in the second year. Does she enjoy it? No, whether the money is good, conditionally. You only live on weekends and everyone who thinks it's cool to be at work at half past ten and to work until 11 doesn't know what it means to no longer have a private life. That’s not much fun.

Then the realistic salary for a 35-hour week is 55k or 60k.

Similarly, a kindergarten teacher with 45k would earn 90k for a 70-hour week ;-)

M. E. nominally high salaries are useless if they can only be earned with a lot of overtime.

But each as it pleases ...

In which universe does a kindergarten teacher earn 45k? And with a business degree you have to work 70 hours and more to get to 60-80k.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

You study law because you find the subject interesting. Financial aspects certainly also play a role, but in principle your own interests should determine the direction. At least it used to be like that. Nowadays, when choosing a subject, one looks at the future WLB (which one already knows before the start of the course ...).
Alternatively, Dorf-FH, then IGM and after 3 years 90k sounds great. And so easy too.

WiWi Gast wrote on April 8th, 2019:

Studying for 7 years or more, for the state exams each 1 year + no life and learning 12 hours a day only to then work 70 hours in order to be exempt from the tax authorities in the end .. Is it worth it? Or rather the no name Dorf FH Bachelor into IGM then BE at 90-100k after 3 years? I'm really desperate .. What is still worth it these days

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

These are not baby boomers, rather the opposite of them. The last years of the war and the first post-war years were a very bad time. 1946 cold hunger etc. The baby boom started in the early 1950s until the pill break in the 1960s.

WiWi Gast wrote on April 8th, 2019:

My lawyer neighbor was born in 1943, his wife was born in 1948.

Since this year he has removed the year of his birth from his law firm's homepage.

Otherwise, I still know lawyers born in 1943 and 1947 with year of birth on the firm's website.

Since these lawyers come from the happy baby boomer generation and at least the lawyer born in 1943 has liquidated six-figure fees for clients I know in the course of his professional life, I find it surprising that they are still active.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

I personally know several lawyers who are still active with over 70. But there are no financial reasons for this. They enjoy it a lot more and they just can't stop doing it. As long as they are mentally fit and find clients who can be advised by them, nothing speaks against it. On the contrary. It keeps you fit and of course they only do the things they choose.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

At the beginning of the 1960s there were only around 10% of today's number of licensed lawyers.

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9, 2019:

These are not baby boomers, rather the opposite of them. The last years of the war and the first post-war years were a very bad time. 1946 cold hunger etc. The baby boom started in the early 1950s until the pill break in the 1960s.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9, 2019:

I personally know several lawyers who are still active with over 70. But there are no financial reasons for this. They enjoy it a lot more and they just can't stop doing it. As long as they are mentally fit and find clients who can be advised by them, nothing speaks against it. On the contrary. It keeps you fit and of course they only do the things they choose.

But that is not necessarily the advantage of those who are currently starting a career as a lawyer.

See also the statutory upper age limit of 70 years for notaries according to § 48a of the Federal Notary Code (who of course can continue practicing as a lawyer afterwards).

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9, 2019:

Similarly, a kindergarten teacher with 45k would earn 90k for a 70-hour week ;-)

M. E. nominally high salaries are useless if they can only be earned with a lot of overtime.

But each as it pleases ...

In which universe does a kindergarten teacher earn 45k?

This is what I thought when I was preparing the tax return for someone who worked in this area 10 years ago ;-)

Daycare managers of smaller facilities with fewer than 40 places (salary group S9) earn, for example, between around 2,600 and 4,000 euros, depending on professional experience, in large facilities with 180 places or more, the salary can rise to a maximum of around 5,450 euros.

And with a business degree you have to work 70 hours and more to get to 60-80k.

See for yourself how badly these jobs are paid.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9th, 2019:

At the beginning of the 1960s there were only around 10% of today's number of licensed lawyers.

Yes, what do you mean by that? The need for advice is also increasing exponentially.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9, 2019:

At the beginning of the 1960s there were only around 10% of today's number of licensed lawyers.

Yes, what do you mean to say to us? The need for advice is also increasing exponentially.

Where, then?

The harmonization and automation of the law is advancing and investment banking is no longer as profitable as it was 20 years ago.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9, 2019:

At the beginning of the 1960s there were only around 10% of today's number of licensed lawyers.

Yes, what do you mean by that? The need for advice is also increasing exponentially.

Where, then?

The harmonization and automation of the law is advancing and investment banking is no longer as profitable as it was 20 years ago.

Just take a look at any law from the sixties and then you have any EU regulation with level 2 and level 3 regulations next to it (sometimes more than 1000 pages with individual articles that are longer than 10 pages), then do you know why.

PS: 99.999% of all lawyers have absolutely nothing to do with investment banking.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9th, 2019:

At the beginning of the 1960s there were only about 10% of today's number of licensed lawyers.

Yes, what do you mean to say to us? The need for advice is also increasing exponentially.

Where, then?

The harmonization and at the same time automation in law is advancing and investment banking is no longer as profitable as it was 20 years ago.

Compliance, data protection, banking supervisory law, capital market law, antitrust law ... To name just a few areas in which the need for advice has increased enormously in recent years

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9, 2019:

At the beginning of the 1960s there were only about 10% of today's number of licensed lawyers.

Yes, what do you mean to say to us? The need for advice is also increasing exponentially.

Where, then?

The harmonization and at the same time automation in law is advancing and investment banking is no longer as profitable as it was 20 years ago.

Compliance, data protection, banking supervisory law, capital market law, antitrust law ... To name just a few areas in which the need for advice has increased enormously in recent years

That only helps the big law firms.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9, 2019:

At the beginning of the 1960s there were only around 10% of today's number of licensed lawyers.

Yes, what do you mean to say to us? The need for advice is also increasing exponentially.

Where, then?

The harmonization and automation of the law is advancing and investment banking is no longer as profitable as it was 20 years ago.

Compliance, data protection, banking supervisory law, capital market law, antitrust law ... To name just a few areas in which the need for advice has increased enormously in recent years

That only helps the big law firms.

Nonsense, there are also medium-sized commercial law firms that advise on capital market law.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9th, 2019:

That only helps the big law firms.

That's not true. And even if: Assuming that only helps the large law firms, then the need for advice would still increase. I recommend that you work on a more coherent argument structure.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9th, 2019:

Similarly, a kindergarten teacher with 45k would earn 90k for a 70-hour week ;-)

M. E. nominally high salaries are useless if they can only be earned with a lot of overtime.

But each as it pleases ...

In which universe does a kindergarten teacher earn 45k?

This is what I thought when I was preparing the tax return for someone who worked in this area 10 years ago ;-)

Daycare managers of smaller facilities with fewer than 40 places (salary group S9) earn, for example, between around 2,600 and 4,000 euros, depending on professional experience, in large facilities with 180 places or more, the salary can rise to a maximum of around 5,450 euros.

And with a business degree you have to work 70 hours and more to get to 60-80k.

See for yourself how badly these jobs are paid.

This is about educators, not the heads of the facility. The educators earn an average of € 25,320 at the start and an average of € 33,600 after 20 (!) Years of professional experience. So do you really want to continue comparing the salary with lawyers and business economists?

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

Why is there a law thread discussing educators?

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

This is about educators, not the heads of the facility. The educators earn an average of € 25,320 at the start and an average of € 33,600 after 20 (!) Years of professional experience. So do you really want to continue comparing the salary with lawyers and business economists?

Google times AVR system 33

By default, it is grouped in 8b. Starting salary 36500 after 12 years still in 8b one is at 51300 after 22 then at 54500. So significantly more. Only that most educators probably work part-time and have many children themselves. Still, 45k is absolutely not unrealistic after a few years.

Still completely offtopic.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9th, 2019:

Similarly, a kindergarten teacher with 45k would earn 90k for a 70-hour week ;-)

M. E. nominally high salaries are useless if they can only be earned with a lot of overtime.

But each as it pleases ...

In which universe does a kindergarten teacher earn 45k?

This is what I thought when I was preparing the tax return for someone who worked in this area 10 years ago ;-)

Daycare managers of smaller facilities with fewer than 40 places (salary group S9) earn, for example, between around 2,600 and 4,000 euros, depending on professional experience, in large facilities with 180 places or more, the salary can rise to a maximum of around 5,450 euros.

Yes, the fairy tale of underpaid jobs. I also know daycare workers who have a very good income. An acquaintance who is the deputy ward manager in a hospital complains that he only earns € 55,000 a year (salary thanks to generous allowances for night shifts and weekend or holiday work).

Some lawyers or business students without a top degree just look in disbelief.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

TVÖD SuE S15 level 6 with deputy management after 15 years of BE as in the middle of 30: 59k
So quite easy, well over 45k

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9th, 2019:

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9th, 2019:

My cousin works every day, but only 5 days a week around 70 hours of net working time, has 110K fixed without bonus in the beginning, is now another 10k more in the second year. Does she enjoy it? No, whether the money is good, conditionally. You only live on weekends and everyone who thinks it's cool to be at work at half past ten and to work until 11 doesn't know what it means to no longer have a private life. That’s not much fun.

Then the realistic salary for a 35-hour week is 55k or 60k.

Similarly, a kindergarten teacher with 45k would earn 90k for a 70-hour week ;-)

M. E. nominally high salaries are useless if they can only be earned with a lot of overtime.

But each as it pleases ...

In which universe does a kindergarten teacher earn 45k? And with a business degree you have to work 70 hours and more to get to 60-80k.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 10, 2019:

Similarly, a kindergarten teacher with 45k would earn 90k for a 70-hour week ;-)

M. E. nominally high salaries are useless if they can only be earned with a lot of overtime.

But each as it pleases ...

In which universe does a kindergarten teacher earn 45k?

This is what I thought when I was preparing the tax return for someone who worked in this area 10 years ago ;-)

Daycare managers of smaller facilities with fewer than 40 places (salary group S9) earn, for example, between around 2,600 and 4,000 euros, depending on professional experience, in large facilities with 180 places or more, the salary can rise to a maximum of around 5,450 euros.

Yes, the fairy tale of underpaid jobs. I also know daycare workers who have a very good income. An acquaintance who is the deputy ward manager in a hospital complains that he only earns € 55,000 a year (salary thanks to generous allowances for night shifts and weekend or holiday work).

Some lawyers or business graduates without a top degree just look in disbelief.

And these lawyers or business students usually do not want to understand that the nurses or day-care center employees may deserve this completely, because they have the more demanding job ...

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 10, 2019:

TVÖD SuE S15 level 6 with deputy head after 15 years of BE as mid-30: 59k
So quite easy, well over 45k

My cousin works every day, but only 5 days a week around 70 hours of net working time, has 110K fixed without bonus in the beginning, is now another 10k more in the second year. Does she enjoy it? No, whether the money is good, conditionally. You only live on weekends and everyone who thinks it's cool to be at work at half past ten and to work until 11 doesn't know what it means to no longer have a private life. That’s not much fun.

Then the realistic salary for a 35-hour week is 55k or 60k.

Similarly, a kindergarten teacher with 45k would earn 90k for a 70-hour week ;-)

M. E. nominally high salaries are useless if they can only be earned with a lot of overtime.

But each as it pleases ...

In which universe does a kindergarten teacher earn 45k? And with a business degree you have to work 70 hours and more to get to 60-80k.

At the start, no kindergarten teacher earns 45k and your 70h for 60-80k are exaggerated in terms of working hours, but not too far-fetched.

After 10-20 years of professional experience, a kindergarten teacher can earn his 45 / 50k (TVÖD E8 / E9 in the final stages), but after this time business students (diploma / master) earn their median 60-80k at 35-45h.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 10, 2019:

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9th, 2019:

Similarly, a kindergarten teacher with 45k would earn 90k for a 70-hour week ;-)

M. E. nominally high salaries are useless if they can only be earned with a lot of overtime.

But each as it pleases ...

In which universe does a kindergarten teacher earn 45k?

This is what I thought when I was preparing the tax return for someone who worked in this area 10 years ago ;-)

Daycare managers of smaller facilities with fewer than 40 places (salary group S9) earn, for example, between around 2,600 and 4,000 euros, depending on professional experience, in large facilities with 180 places or more, the salary can rise to a maximum of around 5,450 euros.

Yes, the fairy tale of underpaid jobs. I also know daycare workers who have a very good income. An acquaintance who is the deputy ward manager in a hospital complains that he only earns € 55,000 a year (salary thanks to generous allowances for night shifts and weekend or holiday work).

Some lawyers or business graduates without a top degree just look in disbelief.

That's the way it is. I recently learned from a client that he is desperately looking for a truck driver (no international tours, back home in the evening). Then I asked him what he pays them. He said: 50k. Well, some young professionals get less after graduation. But the perspectives are of course different.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

I think most of them have to accept that the ratio of earnings to professional bachelor vs. academics is currently shifting. We have far more academics and that's why wages are falling rapidly there. On the other hand, those for vocational training are increasing. As an example, my friend is an anesthesiologist and in her mid-twenties receives a basic salary of 5k gross per month. Thanks to shift allowances etc., these are mostly gross = net. That leaves 4-5k net per month, admittedly the work is not easy but it is worth it. I am still dreaming of such merit at the moment.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 10, 2019:

I think most of them have to accept that the ratio of earnings to professional bachelor vs. academics is currently shifting. We have far more academics and that's why wages are falling rapidly there. On the other hand, those for vocational training are increasing. As an example, my girlfriend is an anesthesiologist and in her mid-twenties receives a basic salary of 5k gross per month. Thanks to shift allowances etc., these are mostly gross = net. That leaves 4-5k net per month, admittedly the work is not easy but it is worth it. I am still dreaming of such merit at the moment.

No matter how much you work shifts, no 5k net of 5k gross and no 4k either. Or is your girlfriend working black? And that may be true for average graduates, but for the top 20% of a degree, it's still well worth it. Not only thanks to the starting salaries of 60-80k (business administration, IT, mechanical engineering) or even 100-140k (law), but above all because of the long-term perspective. With good performance, salaried academics can achieve salaries of several 100,000 euros. Trained or, as you say, professional bachelor's degrees can only dream of this.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

Take a look at the reality in the DAX companies: At the end of their working lives, most academics are still a long way from the 100k. Those who retire today were once among the 10% academics of a given year. What will be the perspective of today's young academics who belong to the 50% of a year?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 10, 2019:

WiWi Gast wrote on April 10, 2019:

I think most of them have to accept that the ratio of earnings to professional bachelor vs. academics is currently shifting. We have far more academics and that's why wages are falling rapidly there. On the other hand, those for vocational training are increasing. As an example, my girlfriend is an anesthesiologist and in her mid-twenties receives a basic salary of 5k gross per month. Thanks to shift allowances etc., these are mostly gross = net. That leaves 4-5k net per month, admittedly the work is not easy but it is worth it. I am still dreaming of such merit at the moment.

No matter how many shifts you work, no 5k net of 5k gross and also no 4k can be left over. Or is your girlfriend working black? And that may be true for average graduates, but for the top 20% of a degree, it's still well worth it. Not only thanks to the starting salaries of 60-80k (business administration, IT, mechanical engineering) or even 100-140k (law), but above all because of the long-term perspective. With good performance, salaried academics can achieve salaries of several 100,000 euros. Trained or, as you say, professional bachelor's degrees can only dream of that.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

You just have to work in the right areas
IGM Banking Pharma and Consulting and you should hit 100k (average)
As a marketing (0815) business graduate it will be rather difficult ..

WiWi Gast wrote on April 10, 2019:

Take a look at the reality in the DAX companies: At the end of their working life, most academics are still a long way off the 100k. Those who retire today were once among the 10% academics of a given year. What will be the perspective of today's young academics who belong to the 50% of a year?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 10, 2019:

WiWi Gast wrote on April 10, 2019:

I think most of them have to accept that the ratio of earnings to professional bachelor vs. academics is currently shifting. We have far more academics and that's why wages are falling rapidly there. On the other hand, those for vocational training are increasing. As an example, my girlfriend is an anesthesiologist and in her mid-twenties receives a basic salary of 5k gross per month. Thanks to shift allowances etc., these are mostly gross = net. That leaves 4-5k net per month, admittedly the work is not easy but it is worth it. I am still dreaming of such merit at the moment.

No matter how much you work shifts, no 5k net of 5k gross and no 4k either. Or is your girlfriend working black? And that may be true for average graduates, but for the top 20% of a degree, it's still well worth it. Not only thanks to the starting salaries of 60-80k (business administration, IT, mechanical engineering) or even 100-140k (law), but above all because of the long-term perspective. With good performance, salaried academics can achieve salaries of several 100,000 euros. Trained or, as you say, professional bachelor's degrees can only dream of this.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

Regarding the KiTa salaries:

In Munich is currently with a starting salary! advertised for educators of around € 3,200 / month. So that makes an annual gross of + - 38,000 €. Know one or the other former classmate (meanwhile a Bachelor of Business Administration) who doesn't really earn more.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

There is long and wide discussion in the media that no normal person (professions such as nurses, educators, etc.) can afford to live in Munich anymore. Therefore, such salaries are regional outliers for such professions and certainly not a standard.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 10, 2019:

WiWi Gast wrote on April 10, 2019:

I think most of them have to accept that the ratio of earnings to professional bachelor vs. academics is currently shifting. We have far more academics and that's why wages are falling rapidly there. On the other hand, those for vocational training are increasing. As an example, my girlfriend is an anesthesiologist and in her mid-twenties receives a basic salary of 5k gross per month. Thanks to shift allowances etc., these are mostly gross = net. That leaves 4-5k net per month, admittedly the work is not easy but it is worth it. I am still dreaming of such merit at the moment.

No matter how much you work shifts, no 5k net of 5k gross and no 4k either. Or is your girlfriend working black? And that may be true for average graduates, but for the top 20% of a degree it's still worth it by a long way. Not only thanks to the starting salaries of 60-80k (business administration, IT, mechanical engineering) or even 100-140k (law), but above all because of the long-term perspective. With good performance, salaried academics can achieve salaries of several 100,000 euros. Trained or, as you say, professional bachelor's degrees can only dream of this.

The official entry-level salaries are much lower. Business Administration Bachelor e.g. 40k and Law 47k.

To the nurse. At 5k gross it would already have 3.1k net or 3.4k net pc 1/3. I now save myself the time-consuming calculation. 24-hour work and shift allowances bring a lot. In addition, they are also tax-free. 4k net would even be relatively little and 5k net should almost be the rule.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

Every business graduate with intellect and brain does a master’s degree, unless he starts in the IB.
Everything else just ends in disaster.

WiWi Gast wrote on April 16, 2019:

I think most of them have to accept that the ratio of earnings to professional bachelor vs. academics is currently shifting. We have far more academics and that's why wages are falling rapidly there. On the other hand, those for vocational training are increasing. As an example, my friend is an anesthesiologist and in her mid-twenties receives a basic salary of 5k gross per month. Thanks to shift allowances etc., these are mostly gross = net. That leaves 4-5k net per month, admittedly the work is not easy but it is worth it. I am still dreaming of such merit at the moment.

No matter how many shifts you work, no 5k net of 5k gross and also no 4k can be left over. Or is your girlfriend working black? And that may be true for average graduates, but for the top 20% of a degree it's still worth it by a long way. Not only thanks to the starting salaries of 60-80k (business administration, IT, mechanical engineering) or even 100-140k (law), but above all because of the long-term perspective. With good performance, salaried academics can achieve salaries of several 100,000 euros. Trained or, as you say, professional bachelor's degrees can only dream of that.

The official entry-level salaries are much lower. Business Administration Bachelor e.g. 40k and Law 47k.

To the nurse. At 5k gross it would already have 3.1k net or 3.4k net pc 1/3. I now save myself the time-consuming calculation. 24-hour work and shift allowances bring a lot. In addition, they are also tax-free. 4k net would even be relatively little and 5k net should almost be the rule.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

This is such a pointless argument and you read it so often in the forum.
Please ask yourself whether a kindergarten teacher is even allowed to work 30 hours overtime per week? Or in 95% of all other professions? The answer is no, you are always sent home. In the IB / UB / offices there is a corresponding budget to pay for this additional effort, even if the net hourly wage is a lower one. The opportunity to earn so much alone is unique, even if it inevitably involves more work.

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9th, 2019:

WiWi Gast wrote on April 9th, 2019:

My cousin works every day, but only 5 days a week around 70 hours of net working time, has 110K fixed without bonus in the beginning, is now another 10k more in the second year. Does she enjoy it? No, whether the money is good, conditionally. You only live on weekends and everyone who thinks it's cool to be at work at half past ten and to work until 11 doesn't know what it means to no longer have a private life. That’s not much fun.

Then the realistic salary for a 35-hour week is 55k or 60k.

Similarly, a kindergarten teacher with 45k would earn 90k for a 70-hour week ;-)

M. E. nominally high salaries are useless if they can only be earned with a lot of overtime.

But each as it pleases ...

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 16, 2019:

Every business graduate with intellect and brain does a master’s degree, unless he is entering the IB.
Everything else just ends in disaster.

WiWi Gast wrote on April 16, 2019:

I think most of them have to accept that the ratio of earnings to professional bachelor vs. academics is currently shifting. We have far more academics and that's why wages are falling rapidly there. On the other hand, those for vocational training are increasing. As an example, my friend is an anesthesiologist and in her mid-twenties receives a basic salary of 5k gross per month. Thanks to shift allowances etc., these are mostly gross = net. That leaves 4-5k net per month, admittedly the work is not easy but it is worth it. I am still dreaming of such merit at the moment.

No matter how many shifts you work, no 5k net of 5k gross and also no 4k can be left over. Or is your girlfriend working black? And that may be true for average graduates, but for the top 20% of a degree it's still worth it by a long way. Not only thanks to the starting salaries of 60-80k (business administration, IT, mechanical engineering) or even 100-140k (law), but above all because of the long-term perspective. With good performance, salaried academics can achieve salaries of several 100,000 euros. Trained or, as you say, professional bachelor's degrees can only dream of that.

The official entry-level salaries are much lower. Business Administration Bachelor e.g. 40k and Law 47k.

To the nurse. At 5k gross it would already have 3.1k net or 3.4k net pc 1/3. I now save myself the time-consuming calculation. 24-hour work and shift allowances bring a lot. In addition, they are also tax-free. 4k net would even be relatively little and 5k net should almost be the rule.

Then you get in with 48k and end up with your master's at 80k. In the meantime, the carers are earning stupid and stupid. If you earn your 4k gross, the carer already has a head start of 8 professional years. The skilled workers are real, just not with academics, 60% of whom are now studying.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

Above all, in other professions there is no opportunity to earn 100k + WITHOUT EXPERIENCE. You have to decide for yourself whether you want to sacrifice your entire private life for this.

After 6 years of GK I made the jump, now a great WLB and still over 100k fix. The GK (and for business people the MBB) is just a good springboard.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

Briefly something general about salary in this forum: Don't always sell yourself so below value. I'm about to complete my Uni Master's with a FACT focus (none of the "Target Universities" mentioned here) and a good, but not a high-performer profile (no 1.xx average, three stations of practical experience). Trainee invited, receive offers and easily get 50-55k.

On the subject of the Jura:

I have an ex-girlfriend who is a lawyer and some buddies who study that too. Of course you can make a lot of money with it if you take a solid exam. What many underestimate, however, is the psychological pressure. You practically study between 8-12 semesters for the big boss, the exam. For this you have to study 1.5 years and write it again if necessary. If you screw up twice, you're out and the last 5 years have been for the ass. You really need a lot of ambition, perseverance and strong nerves.

And since there are also business people here in the forum who smile at law students: Law is much more difficult than studying business administration. I say that and study business administration myself. Have respect for everyone who walks through the Jura.

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Is Jura still worth it these days?

WiWi Gast wrote on April 16, 2019:

I think most of them have to accept that the ratio of earnings to professional bachelor vs. academics is currently shifting. We have far more academics and that's why wages are falling rapidly there. On the other hand, those for vocational training are increasing. As an example, my friend is an anesthesiologist and in her mid-twenties receives a basic salary of 5k gross per month. Thanks to shift allowances etc., these are mostly gross = net. That leaves 4-5k net per month, admittedly the work is not easy but it is worth it. I am still dreaming of such merit at the moment.

No matter how many shifts you work, no 5k net of 5k gross and also no 4k can be left over. Or is your girlfriend working black? And that may be true for average graduates, but for the top 20% of a degree it's still worth it by a long way. Not only thanks to the starting salaries of 60-80k (business administration, IT, mechanical engineering) or even 100-140k (law), but above all because of the long-term perspective. With good performance, salaried academics can achieve salaries of several 100,000 euros. Trained or, as you say, professional bachelor's degrees can only dream of that.

The official entry-level salaries are much lower. Business Administration Bachelor e.g. 40k and Law 47k.

To the nurse. At 5k gross it would already have 3.1k net or 3.4k net pc 1/3. I now save myself the time-consuming calculation. 24-hour work and shift allowances bring a lot. In addition, they are also tax-free. 4k net would even be relatively little and 5k net should almost be the rule.

  • Almost every business graduate does a master's degree
  • The number for the lawyer is wrong, the average is 57k (source: Stepstone)
  • The average for educators is 25k